What hardware are you using?

Discussion of hardware related issues

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tlmiller
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Re: What hardware are you using?

Post by tlmiller »

There are some people that will not buy used or refurb. They'll buy Chinese new if it's good price, but they just won't buy used or refurb. I know a lot of them. I don't UNDERSTAND it, but they're out there.

And for this price range, there's VERY few US laptops that have even TOLERABLE LCD's. I know, I look CONSTANTLY (Yeah, i buy too many laptops). Remember, this is <$400, even AFTER shipping and tax. So you're talking entry level chromebook territory, or 1366x768 w/ 4GB ram from US companies.
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crosscourt
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Re: What hardware are you using?

Post by crosscourt »

Im not as picky about LCDs but Ive purchased many refurbs and theyve been cheap, in great shape and perform well, with a good warranty.
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tlmiller
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Re: What hardware are you using?

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I'm actually the most picky about LCD's. Given that I use laptops most often, I want to make sure my eyes aren't strained when looking at the display. So I'll take lower spec w/ good LCD over higher spec with a garbage LCD every time. But yeah, I've gotten TONS of great laptops used/refurbished. Heck, until my T14's, I had pretty much ALL my laptops purchased used/refurbished!!
wove
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Re: What hardware are you using?

Post by wove »

I will not buy a refurnished machine. It is more a philosophical stance than a practial matter. To me a refurbished unit represents two failure by the manufacturer. First it is a failure in the their manufacturing process, that results in a defective machine being made. And second it is a failure in their quality control process that did not find the defective. The whole idea of a trird party refurbishers is just a marketing concept, that to me means only whatever the some marketing person says it means.

I do buy used. Unless it is from someone I know or a machine that I can touch before buying I always make sure I am prepared to just loose the investment. When I look at all the items I have bought over time, I am feeling I would have been better off getting exactly what I wanted new.
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tlmiller
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Re: What hardware are you using?

Post by tlmiller »

A lot of refurbished aren't actually failed. They're open box returns, demo units, etc. Yes, SOME are failed units, but for the major OEM's, most are simply can't be sold as new anymore, so they're wiped, have the default image put back on, and sold as refurbished.

I know Lenovo has been having to do that a LOT with their new "Z" series. A lot of people jumped at a ultra-thin and light AMD based system (basically X1 Carbon but AMD based), but then after recieving it and finding they're missing the trackpoint buttons I know there's been a fair number of returns as well. There's nothing inherently wrong with these systems, they're brand new they simply were opened and turned on, decided it wasn't what they wanted, and were returned. These will then be sold as refurbished in the Lenovo Outlet.
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Re: What hardware are you using?

Post by wove »

It is more philosophical and buying decisions are always subject to personal whim. I see an open box item, like a store demo unit or a returned birthday present as a used item. Calling them refurbished is just marketing. I guess it is just my personal whim. I will not touch refurbished. It is either bad manufacturing, or a marketing scam and it is not for me.
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Re: What hardware are you using?

Post by crosscourt »

A refurbished item is an item thats been cleaned, tested and repaired if necessary(typically has a warranty on it). Open box items are an entirely different thing as its been opened but not used and returned. Used items are items that have been used for awhile but should not be referred to as open box or refurbished. Demo units if they were used are used in condition, but if they were just sitting there as an example they are considered open box.
Many refurbished items were hardly used and had minor issues that were quickly corrected. Used items should never be described as refurbished even though that sometimes isnt the case. Ive got a refurbished Acer Chromebook that was a third of its normal price but came with the same warranty as the new product. Looks amazing, Ive used it a lot and have had no issues with it. These three terms are actually covered by a set of laws that require disclosure as to the condition of the product and advertised as such. Used items also have commercial grades for their overall condition such as A,B,C,D
which are also part of laws that govern how items are described for sale. Consumer product laws have been around for quite awhile and when used properly give the buyer the ability to make an educated decision.
Refurbished items are probably one of the best deals you can get, particularly when you buy direct from the OEMs. Ive done a lot of business with Dell and Acer and not regretted it one bit, saving me hundreds of dollars and haved owned them for years.
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Re: What hardware are you using?

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Used items are almost always sold as refurbished at least by the biggest OEM's, that's what refurbished means. It means it's been used, but has been refurbished to like new condition by the whomever. Usually the manufacturer but there are actual 3rd parties that do real refurbishing.

As far as major OEM's definition of new, it means new sealed in package never powered on by anyone other than a technician/engineer. Once it doesn't meet that description, the only thing it can be sold as is used or refurbished, and at least the big OEMS (Dell, HP, Lenovo) don't sell anything as "used" directly themselves. While maybe not true for all, that is definitely the way Dell does it (have confirmed with multiple Dell account manager, sales manager, and reps), and it seems the way Lenovo does as well. I don't look at HP's site but I'd bet it's the way they do it as well (their site is awful).

Demo units are nearly always sold as refurbed since they've been powered on outside of the OEM, so regardless of if they've been used or not, because they were powered up outside OEM, they're never sold as new.

Now, there are 3rd parties that sometimes grey the lines between all those.

I do love Dell & Lenovo's outlet, which is where they sell their Refurbished stock. Several hundred less to almost half the price of the same models that are being sold as new, but obviously there is no build to order option. Dell's site is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Lenovo's, as Lenovo will put things on the site they have no actual stock of so just because it's listed on the outlet and lets you load it into your cart and checkout doesn't actually mean you can GET it on the outlet. But you don't find out for 1-24 hours after ordering that they don't actually have it. This causes people a lot of frustration when trying to purchase things from the Lenovo outlet, and is something that Dell has really mastered. If it shows available in the Dell outlet, it's available almost every time.
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crosscourt
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Re: What hardware are you using?

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Anything thats used is used as its description but a used item can be refurbished but thats not to say that all refurbished items are used. Some returned/open box items end up going thru the refurb process with some OEMs and vendors. Just clarifying as the refurbish moniker is added when an item goes thru that process. Agree most OEMs use third parties for refurbishing. Agree about your definition of new which is why open box items are referred to as open box, not new. I was involved with refurbishing years ago for HP and many of the units looked brand new when I got them.

Same here as I like Dell and Lenovos outlets.
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wove
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Re: What hardware are you using?

Post by wove »

It is nice that there are choices and people have the option to purchase what it is they want. Seller terminology has no uniform specificity; it means whatever it is they want it to mean. I just do not do refurbished, period. I also do not buy Asus, Acer, Dell or HP computers, period. I do not buy Ford cars, nor do I buy GE appliances or Craftsman tools. I am glad I have other choices. People make other choices and are pleased with their choice and that of course is just none of my business. If I am asked for a recommendation, I will answer that if you do not know what you want then it is probably best if you do not buy anything until you do know what you want.
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