Endless OS 5 released today.

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wove
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Endless OS 5 released today.

Post by wove »

Endless OS updated to V5.0 today. Endless moved from their own desktop to a more stock Gnome, based on Gnome 41. The core OSTree is built on Debian, so there are really no changes to the core. The update is very seamless. The update starts with a "Tour", which is very nicely done. It goes through changes to the desktop and basic usage information.

I have been running Endless OS and Fedora SilverBlue with the same basic configuration. Both have been very solid systems, but after running the side by side for a year and half, I think I am going to just switch over to using Endless. I have been installing Endless OS on computers I donate for sometime and it has worked well for me and as far as I can tell it has been a productive experience for the end user.

So we have several 8-13 year olds running linux in after school programs, as well as a few 80-90 year olds in assisted living facilities using Linux as well. Which indicates to me that just about anyone can use Linux if they choose to do so. The biggest change I am enjoying in Endless 5, is their nice integration of multiple desktops.

Different users will have different needs of course. I think Endless has the capability of meeting those needs with additional configuration, but for run of the mill mundane home use Endless really fills the bill. Social media, multimedia and web surfing are all ready to go out of the box as well as basic graphics tools and an office package. Using tools such as podman or HomeBrew make it possible to do most everything else.
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crosscourt
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Re: Endless OS 5 released today.

Post by crosscourt »

My only complaint about Endless for mainstream users would be the fact that it doesnt use a traditional package manager and apt-get isnt available.
Thats where a distro like Q4OS ,MX Linux or even Spiral would be a lot easier for new users. Ive never installed it so I cant comment on its ease of install.
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bin
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Re: Endless OS 5 released today.

Post by bin »

I must admit I am very impressed with Endless OS. I can see what they're trying to do and why. This is probably as near as you can get to an Android like experience on a desktop/laptop but still in 'traditional' linux land. Installation is a breeze - but you have no choice about partitioning and the whole disk is wiped. The update process is seamless and almost invisible - which is what it should be.
I was looking at 4 to put on my wife's laptop as it is currently running Debian 10 and so will be EOL soonish. I thought I'd wait till 5 came out to see how it looks.
I do worry a bit about the long term viability however. We have seen so many organisations spring up, bloom and wither all in a couple of years leaving end users hanging in mid air and having to start all over.
wove
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Re: Endless OS 5 released today.

Post by wove »

Bin, you do bring up a point that bothers me. I like to encrypt my data and as far as I can tell there is just no way to do that on an Endless install. I typically do not dual boot, so do not even think about that, but that is another thing that can not be done in Endless. It does however have a Windows installer, which will create a dual boot with Windows.

Endless has been around for 5-6 years now. It was founded by a Harvard Business School Grad. The current CEO is based in Cambridge UK, and is also chairman of the Gnome Foundation. Big brains behind it. They also seem to have an excellent development team. They just recently poached the co-founder of Elementary OS to join the team. The initial focus and still prime focus is education in emerging markets. They said their research showed that in these areas, there was a great deal more familiarity with phones, than with computers, so the UI is designed to be recognizable and friendly for people familiar with phones.

I am definitely of the belief that computers just need to just work. Easy install and worry free updating and easy software installs just needs to become a standard part of the Linux experience, the whole computer experience really. There is always a real joy in mastering the tool you use, but it is also very nice to have a tool just do the job you bought it for. To draw a picture, create a brochure, write a letter or make a 3d print really should not require becoming a command line ninja to do those things.
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crosscourt
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Re: Endless OS 5 released today.

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Your final paragraph wove sums up my feelings exactly. Linux just needs tp work and in doing so would attract many more users and given the phonecentric society we have, Endless might be onto something. My second complaint though it relies completely on Flatpak and thats means youre limited as to what applications you can use. With no apt/apt-get you end up up relying completely on their choices alone. Reading thru the reviews on Distrowatch its a mixed bag but it appears Endless can be a bit hit or miss and relies on Nvidia proprietary drivers which are a bit cranky these days.

Personally I think Zorin is a far easier distro to use,install and maintain as its designed to take care of issues for users. It offers a number of Gnome desktops but its present Gnome Shell desktop is very easy to navigate and use. It offers support for all present platforms for apps and is pre-setup for Wine support for use with Windows apps. I see the advantage of the OSTree design that Fedora Silverblue also uses but the tradeoffs for new/mainstream users just dont make sense.
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crosscourt
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Re: Endless OS 5 released today.

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After reading the EULA I simply cant agree to this. It forces binding arbitration, they will upgrade your OS without permission and they do collect data from your system. The EULA has a corporate feel to it and is quite invasive. Not to say other distros dont do this to some extent but they dont force upgrades on users and data collection can typically be limited or turned off.
Bin's point about whether this OS will even exist in the short term would not make it my choice for distribution to my charity and other clients for use.
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bin
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Re: Endless OS 5 released today.

Post by bin »

wove wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:38 pm Bin, you do bring up a point that bothers me. I like to encrypt my data and as far as I can tell there is just no way to do that on an Endless install. I typically do not dual boot, so do not even think about that, but that is another thing that can not be done in Endless. It does however have a Windows installer, which will create a dual boot with Windows.

Endless has been around for 5-6 years now. It was founded by a Harvard Business School Grad. The current CEO is based in Cambridge UK, and is also chairman of the Gnome Foundation. Big brains behind it. They also seem to have an excellent development team. They just recently poached the co-founder of Elementary OS to join the team. The initial focus and still prime focus is education in emerging markets. They said their research showed that in these areas, there was a great deal more familiarity with phones, than with computers, so the UI is designed to be recognizable and friendly for people familiar with phones.

I am definitely of the belief that computers just need to just work. Easy install and worry free updating and easy software installs just needs to become a standard part of the Linux experience, the whole computer experience really. There is always a real joy in mastering the tool you use, but it is also very nice to have a tool just do the job you bought it for. To draw a picture, create a brochure, write a letter or make a 3d print really should not require becoming a command line ninja to do those things.
I'm obliged for the background info and obviously Endless does have an interesting pedigree, so I'm happy to withdraw my somewhat negative viewpoint about their future.
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crosscourt
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Re: Endless OS 5 released today.

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After reading more Ill agree with bin that it appears they should be fine long term. Endless so far though hasnt made much of an impression on the Linux community as a whole so it will be interesting to see where it goes.
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Re: Endless OS 5 released today.

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I installed Endless 5 and heres what happened. I used the basic install and initially went with the live session but the system sat there with a black screen for quite awhile before it came up and asked me what I wanted to do. I went live session and the system immediately shutdown, not what I was use to with most live media. Restarted system and after a long black screen the live session opened up and worked fine. Overall looked fine so installed it onto my hard drive. The screen again sat there for a long time black with no indication anything was happening. Finally the install began and its so easy anyone can do it. It doesnt give you any option other than to wipe the drive and install using the whole drive. Setting up my wifi was easy, as well as keyboard and language. The install began and went longer than many of my other distros, but no issues at all. Once its done you restart and the system again is black then you again have to setup, language, keyboard and wifi. System then loads for a time then up comes your wallpaper and the desktop is revealed. In many ways it reminded me of Zorin with their Gnome desktop but EOS is more customized.
The basic install gives you a lot less apps but its useable right off the bat with Chromium,Evolution, and LibreOffice. There is a dock at the bottom with favorite apps(which can also be brought up while using other apps or online then auto hides) and a line of apps across the screen you can access, along with a search feature. The task bar is at the top of the screen with activities and applications on the left corner and the sound,wifi,battery,wifi,power off/restart, and settings on the right corner. Its a very simple but effective GUI. If youve used Gnome before settings wont surprise you as its pretty much the same. No Gnome tweaks, you cant change the overall appearance and themes much at all and there are no additional themes if you like a darker theme. There accessibilty features and you can turn off some of the Gnomw features like the super corner. All my hardware was seen and enabled including printers and I installed EOS on my Dell e6440 laptop in a Dell EPort dock and had no issues.
Advanced users will hate this OS as it offers almost no customization but for mainstream/new users it offers a safe haven with everything done for you and the OS is immutable thus no surprises. No way to know how it will do long term until its tested for a longer period. Once you get use to the different GUI, assuming youre coming from Windows or more traditional Linux DEs its a fantastic experience. If you just want the OS to step out of the way and let you get things done, this is the OS for you.
Basic install is 3.3gb so if you have a slow connection its going to take awhile. EOS uses Flatpak(no apt/apt-get) so when you open the app center everything will be a single click install or uninstall. Youre limited to whats in the app center and many apps I use werent there. I installed Firefox, Thunderbird, VLC,Clementine,Kdiskmark, mini system monitor, and Aisleriot. Multimedia tests were fine, streaming was fine and I tested their video app as well as VLC with no issues. It uses Brasero for dvds and they offer Fedora media writer for USB devices.
I need to play with it a bit more but it includes system monitoring, disks and disk usage apps along with Gedit.
This isan OS that some of you will really hate but everyday users, kids and seniors I think could adapt to this very quickly and not having to worry about updates makes it a perfect fit. It performs very well on older systems and feels very quick.

I ran into no major or minor issues and I would rate it 4.5 stars out of 5. The lack of some appearance/theme options was my only real complaint.
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crosscourt
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Re: Endless OS 5 released today.

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It appears the black screen affect both with install and upon booting EOS is caused by my EPort dock. When I boot the laptop away from the dock the Endless load screen came up without problem.
Also I tried to clone the EOS install with Foxclone 0.5 and it didnt work. Not sure if its something to do with their filesystem or the nature of the OS itself.
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