Thinkpad T580

Discussion of hardware related issues
wove
Posts: 1188
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 4:47 pm

Thinkpad T580

Post by wove »

Following up on @tlmiller's suggestion, I checked out and picked up a Thinkpad T580. I went cheap recycled unit from eBay. In some respects better than I thought it would be while in other regards it was worse. I had to replace some broken, missing items, but in the end it is a pretty nice machine.

The unit is oddly still under warentee according to Lenove; got 1 month left. It came with the excellent IPS panel and has the i5 8350u processor instead of the i5 8250u processor. I am not sure exactly what that means for preformance, but I gather it partly means it has UHD graphics instead of plain HD graphics. It has two batteries one has 119 cycles, while the other has 1167 cycles. It appears the internal battery was replaced not long ago, while the removable battery was just ran to extinction. It has 8GB RAM with one open slot and can take up to 32GB.

It will take a while to get use to the off center keyboard/trackpad on the unit. I have always liked the num pad for its edit keys though. Right now everytime I think I have my fingers on the Home keys, I am off a couple keys. It is my first Lenovo with a big track pad and I am liking that. Also this was the first machine I have had, where the Linux firmware update was working. No need for a Windows install as Linux handled it. Also it was nice to see that Lenovo offers both .deb and .rpm packages for drivers for the machine.

The m.2 slot takes an nvme drive but only the shorter ones (2242?). I found one in my stuff, but it is not recognized, so more research is needed with that. I am very low on 2.5" SSDs, so I need to look at another of those as well. At the moment I am running Endless OS on an old 64GB SSD. It is a nice fit for the machine. It should make a good text crunching machine.
User avatar
tlmiller
Posts: 4848
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:29 pm
Location: AZ, USA

Re: Thinkpad T580

Post by tlmiller »

In regards to 8250u vs. 8350u. There is no (appreciable) difference in performance, 200MHz boost clock is it. Essentially the real difference is the V-Pro technologies. The 8350U has them, the 8250U does not.

The 2242 slot is the WWAN slot. The drives are an oddity, as they must be PCIe 3x2 with B+M key. This causes issues because a 2242 SATA drive ALSO has B+M key. So m.2 SATA drives will fit, but not work. For the main drive, you can get a bay that replaced the 2.5" bay to allow 2280 NVMe as the primary drive if you wanted that minor performance boost (due to the way the boards wired, although the bay takes m.2 2242 PCIe 3x4, it actually only operates as a PCIe 3x2).
wove
Posts: 1188
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 4:47 pm

Re: Thinkpad T580

Post by wove »

Thanks @tlmiller for the good information as usual. I had a m.2 drive in my X220 and X230. It always held what I considered the main OS for the machine, and then I could just slide a different SSD into the drive bay to give other OSes a try. The T580's current SSD is in fact the experiment SSD from the x230. The T580's hard drive bay is not hard to access, but not as easy as the X230.

The nvme adaptors for the drive bay I have found are more expensive than just getting a new 2.5" SSD. It looks like getting a newer bigger SSD is the least work and expense. I am also thinking that if I bump the RAM up, the 8 thread CPU would be sufficient to handle simpler lighter VMs with Virt Manager and I would not necessarily need multiple drives.
User avatar
tlmiller
Posts: 4848
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:29 pm
Location: AZ, USA

Re: Thinkpad T580

Post by tlmiller »

Yeah, generally if they came with the 2.5 bay, it's easier to use 2.5 SSD's. If it came with the NVMe bay, easier to use NVMe SSD's. The performance really isn't sufficiently different to bother unless you actuallly know someone who has a dead T480/T580 that has the other bay.

You will definitely be able to handle VM's on that processor. On my T495 (which was actually slightly weaker CPU than that T580) I would configure 4 thread/8GB ram VM's. I wouldn't be able to run more than 1 simultaneously, however it would run them just fine. Course, if you want to run multiple at a time you can always go 2 thread each, but if you're testing something that has a rather heavy UI such as Windows or Gnome it can be very limiting.
wove
Posts: 1188
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 4:47 pm

Re: Thinkpad T580

Post by wove »

I purchased a 500GB Team Group SSD on Amazon for $26. Good price. Should more than meet my needs.
User avatar
crosscourt
Posts: 11100
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:38 pm
Location: Wash DC
Contact:

Re: Thinkpad T580

Post by crosscourt »

Sata ssds right now are really cheap. I got a 2tb Team Group for 96$ which is half the price of a nvme 2tb. Sata ssds cost 50 to 70 percent cheaper than nvme right now and with sales sometimes even lower. Given the modest difference between the two in everyday use its a good deal. Sata ssds are also more compatible with a variety of systems.
Site Moderator
User avatar
tlmiller
Posts: 4848
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:29 pm
Location: AZ, USA

Re: Thinkpad T580

Post by tlmiller »

crosscourt wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 11:26 pm Sata ssds right now are really cheap. I got a 2tb Team Group for 96$ which is half the price of a nvme 2tb. Sata ssds cost 50 to 70 percent cheaper than nvme right now and with sales sometimes even lower. Given the modest difference between the two in everyday use its a good deal. Sata ssds are also more compatible with a variety of systems.
Nowhere near half. I can get 2TB NVMe (gen3, not gen4) all day now for $110-$130. 1TB around $60 -$80 now.
User avatar
crosscourt
Posts: 11100
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:38 pm
Location: Wash DC
Contact:

Re: Thinkpad T580

Post by crosscourt »

Since I bought the 2tb drive the price has dropped even lower to $89 and that includes shipping and taxes. The only prices Ive seen that youve mentioned are seasonal sales due to the holidays. I bought my sata ssds months ago at $96 and right now you can get a 2tb sata ssd in the low $80s.
Netac and Team Group both have steady low prices that began back in September. The other issue is I cant use nvme ssds everywhere so it doesnt really do me much good if nvme does go lower, not to mention the compatibility and performance issuers with some hardware. I had to move away from a nvme drive on my Alienware R10 because of heat issues and no room for a heatsink, given its under the video card.

I saw that T580s on Ebay are going for $158 with an 8th gen cpu, thats a nice price considering most 6th gen go for that price.
Site Moderator
User avatar
tlmiller
Posts: 4848
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:29 pm
Location: AZ, USA

Re: Thinkpad T580

Post by tlmiller »

So, some aren't exactly what you'd call "desirable", but I can currently find the following NVMe SSD's 2TB brand new under $120 shipped (taxes not included):
Kingfast (Chinese brand, very unreliable what hardware you're getting, in that vein, similar to Netac for the SATA SSD's)
Teamgroup MP33
Kingston (the NV2 that's quite good and the absolute trash NV1, although the NV1 is getting harder to find thankfully)
Crucial P3
Intel 670P (I personally hate Intel SSD's due to how crappy the 660P/665P performed, but it is popular and supposedly is MASSIVE improvement over the 660p/665p)
The cheap Inland (Microcenter house brand) that's QLC + Phison E12s, so performance should be pretty garbage, similar to the Intel 665P.

Once you go past $120 a WHOLE BUNCH get added in the $120-$140 range. I know every NAND manufacturer is cutting production due to inventory surplusses getting so high right now, so the prices should SOON go up, but right now they're incredibly cheap (if there were any that I actually liked and didn't already have, I might upgrade some more externals to 2TB) for how much storage you get and how fast runs.

I have been MASSIVELY tempted to pick up a m.2 SATA 2TB to upgrade my 1TB external SATA drive at the prices they're available. Absolutely no use for it, but then...when's that REALLY mattered?
User avatar
crosscourt
Posts: 11100
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:38 pm
Location: Wash DC
Contact:

Re: Thinkpad T580

Post by crosscourt »

Looking around right now I can buy a 2tb sata ssd for $80 from Team Group, Netac and Leven. If I go to just above $80 there are more brands available.
Everything has gotten so much cheaper since September and if anyone needs anything, this is the time to do it. Best deal Ive had so far was 512gb sata ssd for $19 from Netac. If you do a lot of buying from some companies they offer some additional deals, Team Group and Netac did that for me.
Theres no guarantee with better brands as my Crucial MX500 was having some issues yet my Team Group EX2 has been running great.
Levin a Taiwanese company has had some great deals on drives and overall reviews and performance are good.
Site Moderator
Post Reply