Windows 10 gone in 2025, Windows 11 on the way

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wove
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Re: Windows 10 gone in 2025, Windows 11 on the way

Post by wove »

It seems like everything has gone to a model of paying by the month. The younger generations seems fixed on everything is a service and you pay by the month. Even items you typically buy are sold via monthly payments. Personally it has never made any sense to me.
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crosscourt
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Re: Windows 10 gone in 2025, Windows 11 on the way

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Same here as it doesnt make sense to me. Having a virtual Win10/11 available online(plus Office 365) that can be accessed from any type of device sounds interesting till you see it costs a minimum of $20 a month or more. Thats way to rich for me.
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crosscourt
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Re: Windows 10 gone in 2025, Windows 11 on the way

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Its interesting as Win11 isnt going over very well with the vast majority of corporate customers and its gotten notice from Microsoft. The hardware requirements are one of the biggest sticking points, as well as the what happened to just sticking with Win10 and continuing development.
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tlmiller
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Re: Windows 10 gone in 2025, Windows 11 on the way

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crosscourt wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:14 pm Its interesting as Win11 isnt going over very well with the vast majority of corporate customers and its gotten notice from Microsoft. The hardware requirements are one of the biggest sticking points, as well as the what happened to just sticking with Win10 and continuing development.
That was my biggest question. Microsoft boldface lied to us about "Win10 is the last version of Windows"? Never, they'd NEVER utterly lie in order to swindle people out of their $$$...
wove
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Re: Windows 10 gone in 2025, Windows 11 on the way

Post by wove »

That was a lie for sure. It shows a lot of hubris just to make such a statement. I can see why that irritates people.

As far as hardware requirements I do not see the issue. The creator of the OS is expected to know what hardware it takes to run the OS well. And if you need the new OS you may just need to buy new hardware to run it. Apple has done that for years. If Apple feels the hardware would provide a sub par experience (insert snide remark here) then they simply do not support it. Of course hackers make it run on the unsupported hardware anyway. And Apple does not really care. Its your computer and you can do with it whatever you want.

There seems to be a real disconnect between how people look at hardware and software. No one expects Intel to provide a new processor when they release and upgrade. But on the software side there seems to be a feeling that when an upgrade comes out they should get it.

I am sending this from Edge on Win 11 on the Pi 400, which to me indicates that Win 11 can probably be hacked to run on anything you are using Win 10 on.
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tlmiller
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Re: Windows 10 gone in 2025, Windows 11 on the way

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wove wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:03 am
I am sending this from Edge on Win 11 on the Pi 400, which to me indicates that Win 11 can probably be hacked to run on anything you are using Win 10 on.
The thing is, the previews of 11 specifically have the hardware enforcement (and it is enforcement, the hardware requirements AREN'T derived from anything due to processing power, it's an arbitrary line in the sand) isn't active. So yes, 11 right now can install on anything, but MS has said several times (although as CC points out, when business customers start complaining, there may be changes because that's where the big $$ come from) that they're not going to make it so that you can work around them. When it's released, it will REQUIRE UEFI w/ Secure Boot and a TPM 2.0 to install onto something (and also probably will check the processor, but the DIRECT quotes I've read don't really talk about the processor requirements, it's all about the Secure Boot & TPM).
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crosscourt
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Re: Windows 10 gone in 2025, Windows 11 on the way

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There have been articles about defeating TPM and Secure Boot so not sure where this really gets us other than restrict what hardware can be used with Win11 down the road. it also forces users and companies to spend more cash that they really dont care to do down the road, particularly due to the pandemic effect.
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wove
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Re: Windows 10 gone in 2025, Windows 11 on the way

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I have no idea what Secure Boot brings to the security table. From what I have read about TPM defeating, it requires having physical possession of the machine. I think if a determined entity has possession of the machine any and every security can be defeated and the best scenario is that it takes them long enough to defeat that you have time to mitigate the disaster.

I wonder though if you have very clear hardware requirements for base security if it is not possible to create a more secure environment over all. I mean is a system less secure if security is designed from the start with the assumption that systems have no security starting point.

The Pi 4 devices do support TPM 2.0. By default it is turned off since the Pi devices are mainly hobby machines, but it can be turned by the boot loader, and for all I know MS does turn it on. UEFI and secure boot are Intel hardware structures. An arm boot loader can be locked tight and setup so that it will only boot to a specified OS, which essentially provides the same services as UEFI and Secure Boot.

The whole kerfuffle strikes me as a tempest in a teapot. It will cause some more hassle and expense than a standard update, but after a bit it will just be a new normal. Coupled with the fact that no change is necessary until 2025 there does not seem a big reason to get all excited.
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Re: Windows 10 gone in 2025, Windows 11 on the way

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Actually you dont need physical contact to hack TPM. It can be done remotely and heres just one example,
https://thehackernews.com/2019/11/tpm-e ... cking.html
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wove
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Re: Windows 10 gone in 2025, Windows 11 on the way

Post by wove »

I had not seen that, thanks. Security is a sliding scale. Having a TPM did raise the bar on what it takes to break in. The computer was more secure with a TPM than it would have been without one.
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